MSN Clone Discussion

[err0r]

chuck i didn't say similar domain names had anything to do with the ocx lol.. it meant that msn does have a history of going after people for things they consider copyright infringement.. I've seen msn take down sites that weren't trying to claim they were any part of MSN. Their claim was MSN name was copyrighted so sites that had names like MSNscripts.com would be asked and in some cases forced to change their domain name. I hope very much that msn leaves all the clones alone. Someone may as well use the ocx if they aren't.

[Shagman]

chuck i didn't say similar domain names had anything to do with the ocx lol.. it meant that msn does have a history of going after people for things they consider as either copyright infringement.. I've seen msn take down sites that weren't trying to claim they were any part of MSN. Their claim was MSN name was copyrighted so sites that had names like MSNscripts.com would be asked and in some cases forced to change their domain name. I hope very much that msn leaves all the clones alone. Someone may as well use the ocx if they aren't.

 

When prowler bought xmsn.ca we did it cuz we were gonna ride on that name for awhile until people got used to the name, we did get papers from some lawyers to cease and desist cuz we had the msn butterfly, but thats about it. There was no financial loss as we werent that big at the time.

[Chuck]

chuck i didn't say similar domain names had anything to do with the ocx lol.. it meant that msn does have a history of going after people for things they consider as either copyright infringement.. I've seen msn take down sites that weren't trying to claim they were any part of MSN. Their claim was MSN name was copyrighted so sites that had names like MSNscripts.com would be asked and in some cases forced to change their domain name. I hope very much that msn leaves all the clones alone. Someone may as well use the ocx if they aren't.

I mean phishing is a big issue, probably that's the reason msn went after similar domain names. Problem with "MSNscripts.com" is similar that it can confuse people, for example, like if someone used "tg007designs.net" even if the site claims there is no affiliation with "tg007.net", yet still the domain name can confuse people into believing that it is related to tg007.net. On the other hand, ocx issue is not that serious, otherwise, they would have taken out all the chat sites using msn ocx with the sites with domain names similar to msn.

 

But that doesn't mean there is no possibility for msn to go after sites that are using msn ocx.

Edited September 17, 2006 by Chuck

[Chuck]

just want assurance that if they move to buzzen that they are going to have a reliable place to chat. I just don't see how you can tell your users that you aren't going anywhere when you use an ocx that you don't own.

I don't know about internal affairs of buzzen, but it is possible that they have an alternative web chat in case msn force them to remove msn's ocx.

 

[err0r]

sure anything is possible.. but wouldn't it be a good show of faith to talk to their users and tell them that if the ocx is no longer an option that they have an alternative? i mean is it asking to much for ppl that are willing to move all their users to their system to have someone from buzzen ensure them that they do indeed have a plan? I know the ocx issue doesn't seem to be a big deal to you because you aren't the company that spent the money making the ocx what it is today. You look at msn/microsoft and think they make so much money they won't miss it. I think that is a bad way of thinking personally.

 

The parallel i was drawing between msn going after similar domain names and possibly going after sites using their ocx has nothing to do with each other.. You are missing my point. The parallel is copyright.. Not whether it's a domain name or the ocx.

[«‡þøw€®‡»™]

To be honest, I'm at a loss as to how anyone could reasonably assume Buzzen is doing anything Illegal.

Some nonetheless feel strongly we are. I feel those that believe that, are uneducated in what it is we actually do.

 

I can see that some may worry how Buzzen will fare when MSN closes down. That is a reasonable concern and one that has been addressed in a manner similiar to what err0r had suggested, almost word for word infact.

 

 

 

 

[err0r]

atm nothing you are doing I would perceive as illegal. what's going to become an issue i fear is if msn removes the download from their servers. Who is going to offer the ocx for download? That is the problem i think most users are talking about.

 

I think why most ppl are focusing on Buzzen on this issue is that Buzzen is by far the best msn chat clone out. That is a blessing and a curse. As if MSN does focus in on any site it will be Buzzen I'm sure. Like i said i personally hope MSN stays out of it. I still to this day like msn's chat setup. I just do not like MSN in regards to it's treatment of it's users. It would be a very big shame to see that ocx setup disappear. This is all just a guessing game. But you know the only reason people have gone to Buzzen is because of how MSN has done it's users. I know there isn't a thing you can do about what MSN will or won't do. I just hope you are forward and honest with your users on everything that is happening. I would hate to see a message on buzzen down the line stating something like "we are no longer able to use the msn chat control and we have no alternative chat control" Then you are just going to see all your users go to another chat clone, until msn goes after them. I personally hope to see buzzen do well not because i know anyone from buzzen which i don't. But because I would like the chat users to have a good place to chat.

[Chuck]

sure anything is possible.. but wouldn't it be a good show of faith to talk to their users and tell them that if the ocx is no longer an option that they have an alternative? i mean is it asking to much for ppl that are willing to move all their users to their system to have someone from buzzen ensure them that they do indeed have a plan? I know the ocx issue doesn't seem to be a big deal to you because you aren't the company that spent the money making the ocx what it is today. You look at msn/microsoft and think they make so much money they won't miss it. I think that is a bad way of thinking personally.

 

The parallel i was drawing between msn going after similar domain names and possibly going after sites using their ocx has nothing to do with each other.. You are missing my point. The parallel is copyright.. Not whether it's a domain name or the ocx.

The problem is parallel doesn't count value and nature of the two to msn.

 

First, name 'msn' is not covered by copyright law, but it comes under trade mark law.

Second, from marketing and finance pov, name 'msn' is more valuable to the company than a small activex control. Maybe all the legal fee can cost them more, you know lawyers charge more than programmers.

In sum, chances of msn going after sites that use msn's chat control compared to sites that use 'msn' in their domain name is very low.

 

Edit:

If you mean msn can close buzzen, then yes that is a possibility. But parallel is confusing, because from corporate pov there is a huge difference in value for MSN between the two, not mention their is a risk of phishing with similar domain names. Whatever the site with similar domain says, msn or any other big company won't risk phishing.

Edited September 18, 2006 by Chuck

[err0r]

the cost doesn't matter chuck.. just because one thing costs less than the other doesn't make it ok. I've already said the risk is low but it doesn't make it right. You can't justify it by saying MSN shouldn't care as much about it. You can't pick and choose what's right and wrong just because it might be a lesser wrong. It's like comparing stealing a car to stealing a candy bar in the scheme of things i guess but it's still the same thing. MSN wouldn't have to put out any real money to stop the ocx from being used on sites. A simple letter from one of their huge staff of lawyers who are on retainer all the time would end it. This whole thread isn't about whether buzzen should or shouldn't use the ocx ( at least on my part ). My view is they should be prepared if MSN does attempt to stop them. I don't care if buzzen stays around or folds personally. It's just like techgear. If we close there will always be someone to take the place. My only concern is for the chat users. I'm sure we can all agree that MSN chat users have been treated poorly by MSN. My hope is that Buzzen will treat it's users much better. I think by informing your users about the possibility is the right thing to do. I've looked over buzzen site and still don't see where that is stated although it's been said that it has. I'm not saying it's not there, i'm saying i haven't seen it meaning that most of their users probably haven't either. People like me who script don't really need a chat with an ocx. But there are tons of ppl moving to buzzen that do. I'm not claiming anything they are doing is wrong in my view. I"m just saying treat your users better than msn. Be the chat that msn should have been.

[Chuck]

the cost doesn't matter chuck.. just because one thing costs less than the other doesn't make it ok. I've already said the risk is low but it doesn't make it right. You can't justify it by saying MSN shouldn't care as much about it. You can't pick and choose what's right and wrong just because it might be a lesser wrong.

I'm not justifying or making it right to breach MSN's ToS. All I'm saying is that risk is low.