Accusations Of Ripping

[Deanne]

As most already know, there have been accusations of ripping made against the new SoulFly connection for BuzzenV2. The accusations have been posted on a couple of different forums. Unfortunately, both of those forums have banned Travis so he is unable to respond the attack. I don't think that is fair of them, and I want Travis to have the opportunity to respond to their accusations, if he wants to.

 

I know you've closed one of these discussions here already err0r, but I think tg is the right place to have this discussion at, because I know it will be fairly moderated, and that people know something about scripting and coding here. I think Travis deserves a chance to have his say.

 

Below are the accusations that Dabba has posted against Travis, on the Moschino site.

 

Posted: 2007-12-11, 13:54:50 Post subject:

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I couldn't really give a toss what you think of me or my site Gwen. For Travis to come here and say he based nothing on Moschino, and then flaming my work - he should get all the shit he gets. For you to defend someone like that, you too.

 

 
n906=hop { 
n907= var %h_chan = $iif(!$1,$active,$1) | set -u6 %hop. [ $+ [ %h_chan ] ] $true | echo %_cc -t %H_chan $str($chr(160),2) ... Refreshing %h_chan ... 
n908= if ($sock($+(sf.,%h_chan))) { sockwrite -n $+(sf.,%h_chan) PART $+(%h_chan,$crlf,join) %h_chan } 
n909= else { hop %h_chan } 
n910=}

Ask Travis where he got that from, why the channel window closes and re-opens, just like in Mosch.

 

 

n344=ctcpreply { 
n345= if (!$1) { return } 
n346= if ($regex($1,/^%#/)) && ($2 ison $1) { sockwrite -n $+(sf.,$1) NOTICE $1 $2 $Str($Chr(2),2) $3- } 
n347= else { .raw NOTICE $comchan($1,1) $1 $Str($Chr(2),2) $2- } 
n348=}

Ask Travis where he got that from.

 

 

; from the jroom alias 
sockopen %sk irc.buzzen.net $hget(soulfly,port) | sockmark %sk %ad $readini(soulfly\soulfly.ini,login,%ad) $iif($3 == create,$3)

 

 

Sockmarking a socket with CREATE and then doing this:

 

  

    elseif ($2 == 001) { 
      if ($gettok($sock($sockname).mark,3,32) == create) { CREATE $mid($sockname,4) } 
      else { sockwrite -n $sockname join $mid($sockname,4) } 
    }

Again, ask him where he got that from. Infact why has he overridden these aliases like this and not put them within the localhost? Because Mosch does it like this.

 

Sad to see someone - who used my work, based things on my work and then flamed my work - being wrongly supported by buzzen but I'm sure Jay was unaware of this.

 

 

[av0ider]

I'm not saying that Travis did or didn't rip, and frankly the point of all this text is that I don't care, but here's my views on the subject anyway.

Point one, you've both made a hop alias. Interesting. I haven't seen the code for Moschino's, so I haven't compared the code itself, but from my memory, hop aliases have been written in to most BCN connection scripts since BCNv1, since the server only allowed one /join per sockopen, and so it was needed. Also, the channel window closing and opening can be adjusted in the IRC options tab of mIRC itself, so the fact that it happens is hardly original.

And you've both written an alias to change CTCPREPLY to the way that Buzzen's unique IRCWX or whatever protocol works. Again, I thought this was the whole point of connection scripts: Writing scripts to allow mIRC to handle a non-standard IRCD like Buzzen's in a natural fashion.

... and finally the sockmark bullshit. So you both sockmark the word "create" ... Seriously, dude, sockmark is a fairly standard way to hold socket-specific data in connections. Putting a five letter word in to a standard place is really not what consitutes ripping.

That's like saying that any multiple-chansock connection for BCNv2 that came after yours were ripping your concept of using one socket per chan.

 

Like I said, I haven't seen any of the script in Moschino, so I'm basing my judgement purely on the fact that you haven't posted two sets of code for comparison, so I guess it cannot be so similar that you'd need to, which leads me to the thought that the premise of your argument is that the concept of these ideas - rewriting two basic aliases so that 3rd party scripts can handle IRCWX easily - is 'ripped' from your connection. You weren't the first to rewrite these aliases. Travis won't be the last.

 

Also, I personally hate Moschino. Huge script, which annoys the shit out of me. I'd never use it, but that doesn't mean that it's bad, as such, just that it's not for me. Hate it or not, though, there are elements which I like. Elements which to me, are like diamonds in the rough. Just because I can say I hate an entire script, does not mean there are things I would not want to borrow. So I understand if Travis /did/ borrow concepts from Moschino. I also understand you banning him from your forums. But I really don't give a shit about either.

 

You've written a script in mIRC and distributed it to a huge number of people. It's an open source scripting language by nature, and you expected people not to perhaps borrow ideas? You didn't licence your code. You didn't protect it in any way. To my mind, whether or not it is ripped is a moot point. I've been ripped many, MANY times. Do I go around crying about it? No.

 

Basically, both of you just need to gettheflower over it, and if there was a third party, I'd recommend that everyone use that, just to avoid Travis' and your hubris.

[Guest Travis]

lol this is crazy, this is what all the fuss is about? I hear there are some people saying I ripped Moschino. Well I expect none of you reading this really know me so I will say a little bit about myself. I started scripting in 2001 because our rooms were attacked by scripters and I wanted to stop it. 2001 , 6 years ago and the scripters are still playing their games. I script for fun. I would never point out the fact that my connection outperforms Moschino. I always considered Dabba to be more experienced than I am when it comes to this. I always gave him props. But not any longer. I removed my thanks to him from the SoulFly connection as well.

 

I have to say this attitude from Dabba is expected. While I was making SoulFly I had a question for this guy. I thought since noone else is doing what we were doing we could collaborate. Without even looking at my code he assumed I ripped his connection and told me I should write my own stuff. That was my introduction to Dabba. Lucky for me I ran into Tewl who not only helped me with that issue but has been a great friend ever since.

 

The main issue I see here is that Dabba has had the only socket connection for Buzzen for over a year now so mirc users have treated him like some god or something, now here comes another connection. This attack on me started the day after SoulFly was given a Buzzen sanctioned room. Coincidence? So you see, its all a bunch of silly chat drama.

 

Now, SoulFly does outperform Moschino in many ways. I'm thinking this is why he resorted to lies and accusations about my code to debase it. Not only did he do that, but he banned me from his forum AND THEN started in on me. Now there are a handfull of kids who anger easily believeing Dabba or whoever. What am I gonna do? My code speaks for itself. If you looked at it you would easily see our styles are quite different.

 

The fact is I had planned on making a script using Moschino for my connection but the thing was so messy and buggy I would have had to edit a lot of it, that is why I made my own.

 

I am quite flattered that they have been so threatened by it they have resorted to schoolboy tactics but I have to admit, it is a tad bit annoying. I'm mostly concerned with their lies getting people who don't know about this stuff to not even take a look at SoulFly to see why its better. I'm surprised Dabba took such a daring leap, to throw his entire reputation on the line out of fear of .. what? People liking my conn better? I told him from the beginning I didn't want to compete with him. See I like to have fun, to laugh and make people happy. I don't go for the angry bickering like a pack of wild dogs. It's not my style.

 

Let me tell you how I started to make SoulFly. I had been working with sockets for two years but had never made a complete socket connection. I made a complete mIRC connection for VSIXc. I had three options. 1. Use Basic mIRC 2. Open one socket for all rooms 3. Open a socket for each room. Well I had been scripting for msn for a bit and understood the limitations and frustrations. What it boiled down to is I wanted to be able to easily get the channel name at any point. This was always the biggest concern protecting a room. Vincula had $msn.get($cid,fullroom) if you remember. But Vincula and Nuclear still had to use $comchan in certain situations. I can't stand $comchan. I think it;s a horrible patch. (lets hop that the first channel in my list they are on is the right one) I dont script like that. So I chose to open a socket for every channel so I could be sure to always get the channel name. To do this, it is common practice to name your socket and then add the channel name. This isn't new!

 

So now I knew what I wanted, I had to put it into practice.

 

So my friend Amy gives me this old msn tiny connection that just has the basics in it. I don't even know who wrote it. I looked through it till I thought I had an idea what it did and how and started writing it on my own. Well I got to the point of opening a room and hit a roadblock. I couldn't get the channel window to open so I went to the place I always go for help. The best forum for mIRC questions, no offense TG007. This is the post that got SoulFly off the drawing board and into a chat room After this it was only a matter of watching events and deciding how I wanted to handle them.

 

 

So he wants to bring up these points. I'll talk about them with you Dabba. For starters your claims are ridiculous. You act as if you were the first to do these things. These have been done for years. Your code is obviously based off of Vincula. I used Vincula until it was slow, then I went to Nuclear. I met Vexation and Cryton became my best friend. Which is why I credited him with so much. Without Cryton teaching me thing I wouldn't have been able to make SoulFly.

 

Ok so a hop ... lol. I part and join ... ITS A HOP?! One day I hopped and I thought, wow thats slow. I should fix that.

 

You see, Dabba is playing a game with all of you who do not have experience writing a socket connection. When you write a socket connection you are stepping outside of mIRC really. You have to rewrite many mirc commands because they weren't designed to work with your socket connection. He acts like its his intellectual property. ITS HOW YOU HAVE TO DO IT! He didnt start that, he followed it.

 

So instead of letting mIRC part and join the room, I sent the commands through my socket. When it does this SoulFly closes the socket and opens it and that is why the window closes. Actually, I don't know about his, but I gave my hop commands two functions. Paige didn't like it closing the room window, so I made it so if you type anything after the /hop command, it doesn't close the room window.

 

This is my hop command:

hop {
  hadd vars h_chan $iif(!$1,$active,$1) | hadd -u6 vars $+(hop,$hget(vars,h_chan)) $true | echo $hget(soulfly,_cc) -t $hget(vars,h_chan) $str($chr(160),2) ... Refreshing $hget(vars,h_chan) ...
  if ($sock($+(sf.,$hget(vars,h_chan)))) { sockwrite -n $+(sf.,$hget(vars,h_chan)) PART $+($hget(vars,h_chan),$crlf,join) $hget(vars,h_chan) }
  else { hop $hget(vars,h_chan) }
  hdel vars h_chan
}

 

This is Dabba;s from Moschino 2.36:

 

alias Hop {
  var %Chan = $Iif($1, $1, $Active)

  sockwrite -n $C_Sock(%Chan) PART %Chan $+ $CrLf $+ JOIN %Chan
}

Dabba you part and then rejoin the channel!! ITS A HOP!!!! What else would you do?

Did I rip his?

 

 

CTCPREPLY ....

 

Buzzen doesnt have normal ctcp events. They use notice and you have to precede the text with two $chr(2)'s. So naturally you have no choice but to create your own ctcpreply alias since mirc's doesn't work. Now actually I wasn;t going to do this. I wanted people to code for Buzzen. I didn't want to support old msn style codes. But my friend Amy had her scripts and wanted to be able to use them so I conceded and wrote her her ctcpreply alias.

 

What it does is very simple. First it verifies the channel then it sends it in the socket. If the channel isn't present I used $comchan because I really had no interest in this alias and didn't care about it not being 100% accurate.

 

This is mine:

ctcpreply {
  if (!$1) { return }
  if ($regex($1,/^%#/)) && ($2 ison $1) { sockwrite -n $+(sf.,$1) NOTICE $1 $2 $Str($Chr(2),2) $3- }
  else { .raw NOTICE $comchan($1,1) $1 $Str($Chr(2),2) $2- }
}

 

This is from Moschino 2.36

alias Ctcpreply {
  if (*TIME* iswm $1-) {
    var %Text = $Rep_Text($3-)

    Send_Time_Reply $Iif($Left(#, 2) == $(%#, ), #, $Active) $$1 %Text
  }
}

Did I rip this??

 

Ok whats next ... Oh ok, he says I ripped his CREATE idea in the sockmark. Now when working with sockets sockmark is a great tool. I don't like to fill it with too much info though. See sockets can be dynamic, for instance, my sockets are named after the channel. So the actual socket name is always different. Many times there may be core information you want to have available for use in the socket. You can save it as a variable, a hash table, an ini entry, but you need to have something to match to retrieve it. Sockmark is great because throughout the socket events, it is always retrievable with $sockname. So I saved the email address and the password in the sockmark to make it easy to retrieve whenever I needed. Now if they are going to create a room, I felt the best way is to make a 3rd token in the sockmark. if ($gettok($sock($sockname).mark,3,32). If this is $true they want to create a room. Plain and simple. Does Dabba use this? I don't know. I think Nuclear did this. I don't know about Vincula. This isn't new by any means. It's common sense really.

 

 

Ok ... Oh! Thats it... wow all this fuss? It baffles me.

 

As for credit. I gave Dabba credit for the two lines I used. When I originally wrote the room lister I was having issues with extra long topics so I looked around and liked Dabba;s use of the regex. I barely know Regex. I gave him full credit for his 2 lines amidst my 3000+. But turns out, the only buggy thing in SoulFly was the room lister!! go figure, so with version 1.3 I rewrote it using binvars removing his 2 lines.

 

Dabba, I did mention you for thanks in SoulFly but when you started acting like this I removed it. You don't deserve my thanks, you deserve a smack upside the head. But really, I just want to have fun. I'm not interested in fighting.

 

If any of you still have doubts I encourage all of you to open up soulfly, and open up Moschino. Don't just look at the code, which is a dead giveaway. Look at how I designed the whole thing. How the files are in the folders, how I support events CORRECTLY. Read through my forum at all the tools I provide for scripters. I haven't written them all down but I've talked about a lot of them. I feel my code stands for itself. And the sheer fact that SoulFly is faster and more stable should speak for itself.

 

Who do I have to thank for teaching me how to make this socket connection? Vexation, Cryton, TheGateKeeper, Tewl, JD from OzChat and Av0ider. Not to mention my friends who helped me write it and test it. If you want to read the thanks its at the top of the main SoulFly file.

 

Thank you all for taking the time to read this. I hope by now you can see how obvious it is that these claims are false. Cheers.

 

 

p.s. Im not proof reading this thing, I have a feeling a wrote a lot! :S

Edited December 13, 2007 by Travis

[Warrior124]

I do know this. Travis has asked me a few times if he could use some of my coding for his scripts, and I have gladly said yes. Travis, you are a great scripter. Don't let what some people say get to you. I don't think you're a ripper at all. Keep scripting, mate.

[Guest X-Fusion]

Anybody that's accusing Travis of ripping doesn't know how to code. Soulfly does more error checking within each operation that's performed that Moschino ever has and probably ever will. The sockwrite that Dabba is accusing Travis of ripping was taken from Vincula. Quite frankly, all Moschino is is a watered down version of Vincula.

If you go through Moschino and compare it to Vincula, you'll see almost all the same callbacks and operations going on, in almost ALL the same areas. I don't chat on Buzzen, and I don't like Travis, at all, so this is a pretty unbias post.

Also, on another note, who said Soulfly was created in three weeks? Soulfly was taken from the basic concept of the VSIXc connection, just upgraded for BV2. Travis is a pretty quick learner, and puts it to use to learn how to use it. He has been working with sockets since atleast November of last year when he was working on an updater for vMirc.

[Bexy]

Moschino and SoulFly are different, it was a real shock to me to see SoulFly accused of ripping... and to be quite honest it made me laugh out loud. Will all newer than Moschino conx's be seen as rips?

[Guest Zantetsuken]

ahh who gives ashit.

[err0r]

I've had mixed emotions about having this discussion on techgear for many reasons. However it seems to be the hottest topic around and as some are complaining that all sides of the issue aren't having their fair say, I will allow it. But only in so much as it's kept civil. If it turns into a bash fest i'll close it. Anyone that wishes to have their say is more than welcome but we ask that it's done so with the idea of making your point and not just name calling or bashing. I understand this topic seems to have many ppl very heated but i ask that you keep your posts on point. Our goal here at techgear isn't to choose sides. We like to offer a place to express your opinions openly and from all sides. My personal stance on this subject is both connections are well made and are meant to help the public. Not everyone has the drive to do this or there would be tons of connections. I've seen tons of scripts and programs submitted over the years but you could count the number of quality socket connections on one hand. I hope the differences between the two can be fixed because in the end it only hurts the ppl that use their work. I would just like to say good work to both Dabba and Travis. I use both connections in a test room and both have performed outstandingly. I look forward to seeing both creator's continued works.

[The Gate Keeper]

travis will be able to confirm this but he has asked me (like warrior) for use of code and that. Of course, like i say to everyone, use what you want, just leave credit.

 

At the end of the day, mIRC is open source "SCRIPTING". If you make something and release it, you are doing so expecting others to use it, and learn from it. I know that when i created DogCollar first time around for GD5, i lifted the general structure from Vincula and NuClearMSN. And i'm sure this is what's happened here as well.

 

Basically, because both connections are connecting to the same server, you'd expect there be similar structure to the coding. I mean, how many ways can you connect to a server? Tewl already has the alternative out, but aye, some like their sockets. I know i do .

 

Final word, what you release, expect someone to view your code to learn from it. If they rip it, good on them, and good on you. It means that they acknowledge you are better then they are. Big whoop, life goes on. It's not like they stole your life, unless that's all you do in life, then you need a reality check.

[Tewl]

I get so hawt when people say my name.