Deanne Posted February 16, 2007 Report Share Posted February 16, 2007 (edited) This was an interesting debate, with far reaching and potentially very negative effects for society as a whole. I don't think it is too much to ask Jay to explain what his motives are, and what type of society he hopes to create by his actions and encouragement of people to rebel against the laws that make our society a decent place to live. This topic was originally started on the Buzzen forum by Buzzen Admin_Jay, under the category of Debate. I took time to post my comments to the debate there, but my comments were removed, not once, but three times without any reason provided for why, and I was banned(again). The third time I posted comments there, I stated that if Jay refused to discuss the issue on the buzzen forum, and continued to remove my comments, that we could carry on discussions on another forum. I had my post removed the third time, with no reason provided as to why, and I was banned. Thus I have moved the discussion here, in hopes that Jay will answer my questions here. btw, the buzzen debate is located at this link, for those who want to read through all of the comments: Original Debate Link Below are quotes of Jays first and last posting and some in between, and also my three posts, which were removed. Posted by Buzzen Admin Jay This issue is one I think ALL Americans should learn about. I am curious to find out just how many of you know you DON'T have to pay personal income tax. Post what you believe in this poll and then tell us why. ************ * READ THIS * ************ NO UNITED STATES CITIZEN HAS TO PAY PERSONAL INCOME TAX. I WILL DEBATE ANYONE REGARDING THIS THREAD AND CHALLENGE YOU TO PROVE ME WRONG! THE FIRST PERSON TO PROVE ME WRONG WILL RECEIVE $250 USD. **** **** I define "Personal Income Tax" as a tarrif or tax deducted from any money that is paid to you for labour or another service you may provide. _________________ "He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose." -Jim Elliot Posted by Buzzen Admin Jay Would you be so kind as to show me the law they would be enforcing Now on a seperate note, I have noticed the majority thinks this money is spent on making america a better place. Truth is, not even 1 penny of your income tax is used for any public betterment at all. Actually no person has to pay regardless of how much they make, the only LEGAL income tax in the United States is for corporations not citizens. I define "Personal Income Tax" as a tarrif or tax deducted from any money that is paid to you for labour or any other service you may provide. This thread is not a trick question Troy. Not 1 penny of the income tax goes back to the united states government or any services it provides for the people. Posted by Buzzen Admin Yahoo i think i will move to america lol Posted by Buzzen Admin Jay lol Posted by Buzzen Admin Jay I understand your point and how you could confuse it. But all you are proving is that the US Government in coersion with the Federal Reserve has duped the American people for decades and this tyranical rampage has victimized millions of Americans. No Law is Legal that is not approved by congress. So any law that outsteps its bounds are required by law to be ignored. The Internal Revenue Code has NO Law, authority or approval from congress to require you to pay federal income tax. I think once you read my last post and watch the video you will understand much better how wrong you are. Like I said, dont take my word for it, DO THE RESEARCH. The Federal Reserve is in no way connected with the US government. It is a PRIVATELY OWNED BANK. The United States Government works for the Federal Reserve. The federal Reserve reports to and takes orders from its owners. So in reality the group who owns the federal Reserve controls the US Government. _________________ "He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose." -Jim Elliot These are my three comments: Posted by Gwen Jay, I'm wondering what type of society you hope to create? One that exploits every little pin hole it finds, for personal benefit and gain? A society in which everyone refuses to pay income tax? A society where we don't have to respect the rights of other peoples creations, and copyrights? Reading through this I can't help but notice how closely your logic on this issue, follows the same path as your defense of using someone elses copyrighted chat control without permission. It's sad Jay, and it's twisted. **Edit** And for those who like to pat themselves on the back because they are small enough to squeek through a pinhole in legal policy--how long do you think it will take the legal system to plug that hole, once you've made it known by exploiting it? Our legal system is dynamic, and it continues to change in order to meet the needs of a our world. If you can fight the system and sucessfully prove your right NOT to pay taxes, or your right to USE someone elses copyrighted software without permission--how long do you think it will take before their are laws created that prevent you from exercising these new found 'rights' that end up harming other people, and society in general? In the end, what is the point? To prove you are smarter than everyone else? For the sake of a make new laws work project? For personal and selfish gain? This was my 2nd post: Posted by Gwen Who removed my post and for what reason? Please restore my comments. **Edit** Luckily I'm aware of how unfairly this discussion forum is censored, and I saved my own comments, which had been removed. Please explain to me what reasons you had for removing my questions and comments, which are re-posted below: btw Jay, you are using one of the same quotes I have on my email signature "He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose." -Jim Elliot You might think you can keep side stepping and evading the law, but it's not yours to keep --only a fool would try. Give up what you cannot keep,(the benefits of walking on the wrong side of the law) Jay, to gain what you cannot lose (Integrity, honesty, good will). --Jay I think you are too smart to waste your time on gimmicks and trying to squeeze through loop holes in the law. Just do the right thing. That was removed also so I reposted a third time, and was banned: Posted by Gwen Is this the type of society you hope to create, Jay? One where people are not even able to voice an opinion, or ask questions of their high and mighty site administrators?? My comments were removed for the 2nd time. If they are removed again I will simply move them to another forum, and we can discuss them there. Again, this was an interesting debate, with far reaching and potentially very negative effects for society as a whole. I don't think it is too much to ask Jay to explain what his motives are, and what type of society he hopes to create by his actions and encouragement of people to rebel against the laws that make our society a decent place to live. Edited February 16, 2007 by err0r Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
err0r Posted February 16, 2007 Report Share Posted February 16, 2007 yeah i've seen people that think that exact same thing over and over. The fact is that if the person disputed it, it would go to court and there isn't a court in the U.S.A that would allow an individual to not pay income taxes. There have been many people who have tried and they all fail. They have a zero percent success rate. see here for a little more clarity i imagine this is coming from someone like ed brown. While many of the things he says is true the bottom line is that a court would have to ultimately decide in an individuals case. That's where your problem lays. You aren't going to get by the courts with that. another interesting site as for why it was deleted i would imagine it was because you are just using a current topic to rehash an old one. But that's just my guess. If the topic was puppies i would imagine you would write how could a so called puppy lover use a chat control you didn't own.. i guess you steal ppl's puppies too. Hey everyone Buzzen supports puppy thieves. Maybe a little over the top but you get my drift.. i get where you are coming from gwen i really do but i think you are just beating a dead horse now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh` Posted February 16, 2007 Report Share Posted February 16, 2007 (edited) Well it doesn't help you made a personal attack on Jay... I think. That's probably why they got removed. Other than that, I don't care about the topic of discussion rofl. It's boring stuff *shrug* Edited February 16, 2007 by Josh` Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanne Posted February 16, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2007 (edited) Nice site err0r. With all due respect, the issue is that it is a pattern of behaviour that concerns me. If you look at each event alone, they don't mean much, but as you begin to notice the similar pattern of lawlessness it makes more sense. Jay seems to seek to rebel against the laws of society, and encourage others to do so also. I believe it is only fair to require him to provide us with information as to what type of society he is hoping to create, and for what motive. It is not just a single matter of encouraging people to consider evading paying their taxes...it is also a matter of using copyrighted material without permission and trying to convince people it is LEGAL. These two items combined show that it is not an issue of poor judgement, but rather it is a personality pattern, which has an overall negative effect on society. The point is, anyone who thinks its LEGAL NOT to pay taxes, is of course going to think its LEGAL TO USE SOMEONE's copyrighted material without permission. They are both related and they both come from the same source: faulty reasoning. **Edit** btw Josh I don't think I attacked Jay. I attacked his logic, and questioned what type of society he hopes to create by convincing people that it is right and legal to ignore copyrights and tax laws. Edited February 16, 2007 by Deanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Travis Posted February 16, 2007 Report Share Posted February 16, 2007 I think if my annual income is below a certain amount I dont have to pay federal income tax. I live in Washington state and we do not have a state income tax. I think I would still need to pay Social Security tax. But really, I have a feeling Jay is starting to get a hint of what his latest venture demands and since his moeny is probably all wasted on candy, video games and "Geek Squad" calls he is probably a little worried and like any white trash person, would rather complain about it. Ok that was a little harsh but let me ask you this. Do you drive on the roads? Do you use electricity? You are canadian, you get public health care, where does that money come from? Do you live in a free and safe country? If you answer yes to any of these then pay your damn dues just like everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest X-Fusion Posted February 16, 2007 Report Share Posted February 16, 2007 I'm just giving everyone fair warning ... I'm going to be monitoring this topic closely, as I'm sure other administrators on this site will be aswell. If anyone begins a personal attack on anyone, or wherever they chat, this will be closed. We can carry a decent debate without having to resort to name calling, or mud flinging. It's been demonstrated before. We're all decent civiliized human beings that have brains, so, lets use them in this topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iLia Posted February 16, 2007 Report Share Posted February 16, 2007 *replies real quickly before X closes this again* I'm gullible. I actually believe that the Government of the united states had those planes hit the WTC because a youtube video told me so. Bad example...but ppl ARE gullible. What I dun want to see a year from now is a post in Buzzen (or anywhere ) saying ' I took your admin's advice and didn't pay my taxes...I'm now posting this from a net cafe in Tripoli where I've been hiding from the evil tax men for the last 5 months'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanne Posted February 17, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2007 (edited) I'm just giving everyone fair warning ... I'm going to be monitoring this topic closely, as I'm sure other administrators on this site will be aswell. If anyone begins a personal attack on anyone, or wherever they chat, this will be closed. We can carry a decent debate without having to resort to name calling, or mud flinging. It's been demonstrated before. We're all decent civiliized human beings that have brains, so, lets use them in this topic. thats fair X *Gwen waits for Jay to reply to her question. Again, I don't think it is too much to ask from Jay, to explain what his motives are, and what type of society he hopes to create by his actions and encouragement of people to rebel against the laws that make our society a decent place to live. Jay, I'm wondering what type of society you hope to create? One that exploits every little pin hole it finds, for personal benefit and gain? A society in which everyone refuses to pay income tax? A society where we don't have to respect the rights of other peoples creations, and copyrights? Edited February 17, 2007 by Deanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest X-Fusion Posted February 17, 2007 Report Share Posted February 17, 2007 If the topic was puppies i would imagine you would write how could a so called puppy lover use a chat control you didn't own.. i guess you steal ppl's puppies too. Hey everyone Buzzen supports puppy thieves. Sorry, I just found that really funny, and I didnt read it before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanne Posted February 17, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2007 (edited) Sorry, I just found that really funny, and I didnt read it before. ha :/ puppies isn't even related to this. But ignoring income tax laws and ignoring copyright laws are closely related concepts. Trying to persuade people it is LEGAL to with-hold their income taxe, and trying to persuade people it is LEGAL to use someone elses copyrighted material without permission, are similar--and both stemming from faulty reasoning. Edited February 17, 2007 by Deanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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