Rancid_ Posted February 17, 2007 Report Share Posted February 17, 2007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joän Posted February 17, 2007 Report Share Posted February 17, 2007 Well it seems to be very difficult for someone to start a topic on his own forum about tax, because we just simply move the topic to another forum and will go off topic again. There are many other topics about the issue you still want to dicuss, be honest.... you don't really want to talk about tax, do you deanne? To get On topic again In the Netherlands we pay tax also income tax and have to pay social security tax and more and we have a law for it and its an obligation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grinning_male Posted February 17, 2007 Report Share Posted February 17, 2007 (edited) I say why go to a site you dont like because its a clone site and then complain about being banned your replies being deleted, firstly if I disliked a site for any reason I would not return to that site.. Simply stay away from it or put up with the fact that your views and comments are not wanted on that site. And finding any opportunity to bark at coyright infringement clearly shows that some people are affected or feel threatened from such cloned sites... Gwen you got banned your replies were deleted big deal dont you think its up to the admin to do as they want like on here if things go out of hand topics are locked thats the right of an admin. You have no right to air your feelings on a site you dont like hint hint take the hint Edited February 17, 2007 by grinning_male Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iLia Posted February 17, 2007 Report Share Posted February 17, 2007 You have no right to air your feelings on a site you dont like You have every right to air your feelings in a debate. It's why the debate is there. If you start screening posts ( whereas it's an ocx debate or a tax one) in a debate just don't bother starting one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joän Posted February 17, 2007 Report Share Posted February 17, 2007 Sure you are right, thats why we have forums to have your say in things. But I think when you start a topic, don't use that topic for another subject because you still can't let go. A subject with all the important info about the ocx from one person on serveral forums. At first when I read that subject I appereciated that info, also because it was written with knowlegde and the info was objective, but to be honest.....after reading more then 100 posts from this person I noticed that there was more then feeling obligated to inform the people about the oxc. It isnt really objective anymore, cloneservers and their admins were added to posts with names, and at the same time you try to advertise another chatserver that doesnt use the ocx and also try to say that it isnt an personal attack, well if it isnt..... then leave the names out of your posts. Okay Im aware that Im off topic too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanne Posted February 17, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2007 (edited) No I don't actually want to talk about the LEGALITIES involved in either the tax evasion or copyright issues. I want to talk about what EFFECT tax evasion and ignoring copyrights might have on society. If we all jump on side with Jay and stop paying income tax, and ingore everyones copyright--will our world be a better place to live, or worse? That is what I want to talk about. To me this goes deeper than a tax debate or copyright debate. Yes I have a huge issue with clones using copyrighted software without permission. Everyone knows that. I also have a huge issue with people who evade income taxes. If I ONLY wanted to discuss the ocx issue with Jay AGAIN, I would open a topic on that. But to me the issue goes much deeper than all of that--it boils down to what type of society are people who ignore copyright laws and evade income tax trying to create? We have laws in our society to protect our us and ensure we have freedom to enjoy life to the fullest. Encouraging people to blatantly disregard those laws has a negative effect on our society. Do people think the world would be a better place if no one paid taxes, and if we all utterly ignored the copyrights of others? Mayb we should jump on Jays bandwagon and disregard roadway laws, and drive on whatever side of the street we want, and ignore stop lights and red lights also? What is Jays REASON and what is his MOTIVE when he tries to convince people it is LEGAL to use that ocx without permission? What is Jays REASON and MOTIVE for trying to convince people it is LEGAL to evade income taxes? What type of society does he hope to create by convincing people to ignore copyrights and evade income taxes? My question to Jay goes deeper than the tax issue or the copyright issue. I want to know what type of society he hopes to create, by persuading people it is LEGAL to use someone elses copyrighted software without permission, and by persuading people it is LEGAL to evade paying income taxes. Jay wanted to debate the LEGALITY of these things, and in both cases insisted that people SHOW him LAWS that refute his faulty logic, and when they did, he brought up information on WHY those laws aren't valid. It's all faulty logic, and I don't want to leave this topic at that--it's not just a matter of proving its LEGAL or NOT LEGAL--its about what kind of effect our actions and choices have on society. So that is why I asked what type of society he hopes to create by encouraging people to ignore copyrights, and evade income taxes. **Edit** Grinning male, I have every right to air my concerns about the fact that a site admin is actually trying to persuade people it is legal to evade paying income taxes. I also have every right to air my concerns about the fact that the same site admin has actively been tryign to persuade people that it is legal to ignore copyrights. I also have every right to ask that site admin, by name, to explain the what his reasons and motives are for encouraging people to ignore copyrights and evade taxes. If people do not want to be held accountable to their words and actions, then it's better for them to keep silent. Jay has not been silent. Further he is in a leadership role, being admin at a chat site--therefore he should expect people to hold him responsible and accountable for what he encourages people to believe, and reqest that he give a full account of why he is encourages it. Edited February 17, 2007 by Deanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shagman Posted February 17, 2007 Report Share Posted February 17, 2007 (edited) I have nothing to add to this topic...maybe cuz I don't care. I care more about other things like the fact that U.S. Government has its hand in on too many things. Just what is freedom? Somewhat reminds me of a store hold up/robbery. I suppose it works. The idea of you do it now or we will shoot. Reminds me of the bully kid in the sand box, "You do it now or I will punch you in the face, and fifty other punks will do the same cuz your small in numbers. " Here is what the world thinks of the US governments supposed freedoms. Freedom to watch people in other countries go jobless. Freedom to kill industy in other countries, just because they do the job better. Freedom to watch peoples dreams in other countries go down the tubes. Freedom to exert power over other nations. Freedom to control every facit of peoples lives, even if its not within your own nation. "Remember kids, everytime you gamble outside of Reno/Nevada baby Jesus cries." And Gwen, maybe your mode of attack is getting old. Perhaps you should convince the slave kid sysops/guides that they will never see anything in return for the cheques/checks being cashed. Admin work is not as hard as sysop or guide, but admin gets the cash....does this make sense? I say these sysops/guides need to abandon the ship and move onto bigger and better things. Too much talent is being wasted on someone else, with absolutely no return. Edited February 17, 2007 by Shagman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joän Posted February 17, 2007 Report Share Posted February 17, 2007 (edited) To me this goes deeper than a tax debate or copyright debate. Yes I have a huge issue with clones using copyrighted software without permission. Everyone knows that. I also have a huge issue with people who evade income taxes. We have laws in our society to protect our us and ensure we have freedom to enjoy life to the fullest. Encouraging people to blatantly disregard those laws has a negative effect on our society. My question to Jay goes deeper than the tax issue or the copyright issue. I want to know what type of society he hopes to create, by persuading people it is LEGAL to use someone elses copyrighted software without permission, and by persuading people it is LEGAL to evade paying income taxes. So that is why I asked what type of society he hopes to create by encouraging people to ignore copyrights, and evade income taxes. Yes Im aware that this issue goes much deeper for you then an ocx or tax debate. You want to know what type of society he hopes to create? I think that he doesnt want to create anything with the tax poll, he only want answers, but maybe I have read it wrong and have to read it from your point of view, but if I do that, think he can never ask a question or search for answers or start a poll again. Btw this type of society that you have an issue with is not to blame to one person only. If you want to blame someone, lets just blame everyone who is using for example Limewire to download music from the internet, using software like nero, photoshop, fireworks and search for the key to use that software. You will be surprised how many people on the internet are using illegal software. And I will be surprised if there is anyone out here on this forum to say honestly, "yeah I do ripp movies" or "yeah I have Nero". Oh and speaking about tax, in the Netherlands we have to pay income tax and can goes up to 52 % of your salary. Unfortunately we have to pay 52 %. And yes I have a legal xp pro And yes I do burn movies and music albums And yes I still have to pay and pay and pay and pay and also more and more and more. SO Im a bad person now..... whos next? Edited February 17, 2007 by Joän Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Travis Posted February 17, 2007 Report Share Posted February 17, 2007 (edited) I have two questions Joan. #1 Why are you speaking for Jay? #2 Why are you so angry? Shag I dont understand your anti american statements... With all due respect of course: We watch people in other countries go jobless? Tell me one country that cares more about other countries citizens than its own? Also, we send most of our jobs to other countries. As you have stated in your next point ... Freedom to kill industy in other countries, just because they do the job better. 2 points, again, we send our jobs over seas. How would that kil industry in a country if we give you millions of jobs? (this is frowned upon by most americans. Well Id hope most, me at least, Id like to see us keep our jobs here.) I think your own quote sums up the anti-american statements Shag. "What makes it so hard is not that you had it bad, but that you're that pissed that so many others had it good." Id also like to point out that this is an American movie, written, directed, produced and acted by Americans. Like it or leave it. Dont love it and then complain about it. About Gwen, I think people need to stop worrying about the person making the complaints or accusations and look at the accusations. Tackle those if it pisses you off so much. Edited February 17, 2007 by Travis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanne Posted February 17, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2007 (edited) Yes Im aware that this issue goes much deeper for you then an ocx or tax debate. You want to know what type of society he hopes to create? I think that he doesnt want to create anything with the tax poll, he only want answers, but maybe I have read it wrong and have to read it from your point of view, but if I do that, think he can never ask a question or search for answers or start a poll again. Btw this type of society that you have an issue with is not to blame to one person only. If you want to blame someone, lets just blame everyone who is using for example Limewire to download music from the internet, using software like nero, photoshop, fireworks and search for the key to use that software. Joan he was doing MORE than starting a poll or asking questions. Jay was accusing America of illegally robbing the people of their hard earned money, and failing to do anything beneficial with the tax money. Jay was actively encouraging people to view paying income tax as an ILLEGAL and USELESS activity. In the past Jay has actively tried to convince people that it is LEGAL to ignore copyrights. These two things combined show a PATTERN of behavior that NEGATIVELY affects our society! Further, the PATTERN of lawlessness is increasing from trying to convince people that it is LEGAL to ignore copyrights, to trying to convince people that it is LEGAL to evade income taxes! If this pattern of lawlessness continues, what is next?? When someone is actively trying to change the views and opinions of others in such a negative way, as to PERSUADE them that it is LEGAL to evade paying income taxes and ignore copyrights, I think we are RESPONSIBLE to call them on their actions, and requst that they give an account of their motives and reasons, and to explain what type of society they hope to create by persuading people to disregard taxes and copyrights. And, no matter how you look at it--downloading movies, music without paying, or using someone elses copyrighted material without permission ROBS people of the income and rights they HOLD on that material. Ultimately the more people who accept these actions as "OK", the further downhill our society slides. How many of us would enjoy giving away your work for free, or having people ignore our copyrights on materials? And what type of society are we hopeing to create, when we encourage people to think that it is LEGAL and thus OK to ignore copyrights, download movies and music without paying for it, and evade paying income taxes??? Basically alot of people don't looking at the effect their actions or decisions have on others, or on our society as a whole---most people who advocate that it is LEGAL to evade taxes, or that it is LEGAL to ignore copyrights, or that it is LEGAL to download music and videos without paying for them are NOT looking past their own nose--they are being selfish, and putting the benefit for themselves, above the rights of other people, and the welfare of our society as a whole. Edited February 17, 2007 by Deanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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