Ethics.. A tough question

[err0r]

glad to see you posting again YAHOO

[Guest X-Fusion]

Yahoo is off his binge! Welcome back oh great one!

[Deanne]

Somehow I think your story is inconsistent, first you say you have no time and energy to start a new site

And then you say after you took over the group you have (created?) a new group?

So whats left of your original excuse?

 

 

Hi Webagent. The structure for the site or group is not difficult to create..but the group of people who make that group what it is, are difficult to find.

 

btw, the 2nd quote you used was in reference to the new group the other managers opened, not to a group I opened.. When I took back the group, those other managers quickly set up a 2nd group, so they could continue to provide the level of censorship and oppression some liked. Instead of forcing people to remain in the group I took back, I openly posted the link to their new group, so that people had the choice to join there, or stay.

 

And yes a few months before ever taking back the group, I had opened an alternate group for people to discuss things freely in, but the manager bent on control and censorship refused to make that link known to the members.

 

Creating a new group site wasn't the difficult part, and its not the part I didn't have time or energy for. The time consuming part is finding the time and ways to make a group or site known, and attracting a few thousand new group members. Anyone can create a ghost site, beautifully laid out, but with no members. The hard part is finding the members to fill that site.

 

I did not have time to create a whole new group by opening a whole new subscription chat room, and attracting people through that, like we did with the 1st 1800 members. Nor was it even feasible anymore, because the circumstances had changed. We attracted 1800 sda members when msn was at its peak, those 1800 members were part of our room, and our group. Then our room was taken over, and our group was closed down, and those 1800 members were then sent to the new hosts group, who had taken over our original room. Most of those 1800 members did not even join subscription chat, so there was no way to get in touch with them, and make them aware of an alternate group they could now join.

 

None the less, I did open an alternate group, because I felt that would solve the problems in the best way possible. I fully expected those managers to be fair, and give people the option, and the choice. My way of thinking was, then the oppressive group manager could continue to maintain his option to censor, mock, and ridicule members, but people would also have the option joining a new group, which would allow them to freely share their thoughts, and opinions, free from fear of mockery and banning. It took me only a few minutes to create that group site...but it sits virtually empty to this day, because I did not have the time to open up a subscription room to make it known, and attract members.

 

So in this way, simply 'creating a new site' offered nothing to help the members...because most of them never even found out about it, because sadly, the other group managers were not fair enough to provide the members with the link, and the choice. Unfortunately the one manager is a control fanatic, and rejected my every attempt at a fair resolution, so I felt justified in ending the wrong doing with more invasive methods, and accepted realizing the one owners password as a sign and a method to finally end the wrong doing that had gone on for 3 long years.

 

I don't mind answering more questions, basically no one has ever accused me of making the right choices all the time. But despite that, even when my choices are bad, my heart and motives behind that are generally good.

 

And lastly, for the record. I spent all of my time reasoning through if it was right for me to use the password to end the wrong doing, or just walk away and let the wrong doing continue. I spent alot of time weighing the pro's and con's and going through my own motives and feelings. I actually spent so much time just trying to sort out if it was the right choice for me to make, that I failed to actually think about what I wanted to do if I actually did take the group back. So once I did make the final decision to take the group back, I did so quickly..and only then realized that I had forgotten to think about what I would do with the group once I took it back.. sigh. So it did take me several days to work out what was the best option for handeling what I had done. Looking back I see alot I would change, in this regard.

 

So if there are no more questions or comments about what I did, maybe err0r would tell us more about what happened with xt? (I'm assume this was the extreme team forum?) If so, I was part of it, and remember that something happened, but never did get involved enough to know exactly what. I would like to hear the details if err0r wants to talk about it all.

Edited October 27, 2006 by Deanne

[err0r]

no i don't mind talking about it..

 

History of err0r volume 2 lol

 

Once upon a time a guy named err0r happened upon MSN chat. He noticed that some users where able to do things with modes that webchatters just couldn't do. So he ventured out into cyber space to find out how they did it. He happened upon Haines Crappy Website. He learned how to work the various bots/scripts that were out but noticed there weren't many people willing to help newbs to learn these progs. He started to help people on Haines site. Along with a few other people that eventually moved to extreme computing. Anyways he got interested in webdesign and started a site of his own. err0r.vze.com. At the time he was learning his first html strings he was getting handy with MSN progs. So he combined the two into a site. Along with MSN stuff you could find conspiracy type information, wavs, pc pranks, and various other things that interested me at the time. A guy by the name of Daddy Darkson contacted me one day with a plan to combine our sites. err0r.vze.com had a small but growing user base and DD had a pretty popular MSN Group based on MSN progs. With my interest in web design and he knowing alot of the programmers/scripters in the msn world we thought we could come up with a useful website. Played around with some names and came up with TechGear. Shortly thereafter JJ's Viperbot started to become really popular and his help forum extreme computing was a good place to go for help. I started posting and helping where I could. One day I visited the forum to find out that I was a moderator and a member of the "extreme team". I was very honored and somewhat shocked as I didn't really know many of the people there outside of the forum posts and wasn't trying to gain any status there. ( i know i went from 3rd person to 1st lol ) Tellinusis, David, webagent007 were just a few of the other people that were part of the team. As the amount of progs grew and the popularity of viperbot began to shine the team started to grow. I think we did alot of good back then. The extreme team name was known by most every chatter on MSN. We did our best to help anyone that needed it. I can't count the amount of times that chatters would give me the pass to their room just to set +m for them lol. Being on the team almost gave you instant trust with the chat community. As xt grew tg grew. We had our own thread on the xt forum and only used tg for downloads. Soon the team began to grow and grow and it got to the point where JJ decided to leave. He named me the new forum admin. Now i was in charge of the forum. I've never liked to be the "only" one in charge. I tend to want to work on projects with others of equal responsibility. I thought people like David and Webagent were just as responsible for the future of xt as I was. As xt was growing I felt some of the team members were putting xt in a bad light. A very small minority of users were doing things in xt's name that I didn't agree with. I probably had the authority to remove some of the members but the more I thought about it the more I didn't like the idea. JJ had promoted them to the status of xt and I felt he had good cause to do so. I didn't want "my ideals" to become the xt standard. The team was turning into something that I was no longer proud of but changing the team around because of one man's sense of what should be done didn't feel like the right thing to do. I decided to step down from my role as admin. When I left I had no problems with any xt user. The sad thing was I didn't even know most of the new team members. After I left I saw instances where my name was brought up and a few had things to say about how kiddie tg was ( lol many still do today ). I carried on the same way on tg as I did on xt. I built a community of people helping people. Not sure why some people were threatened by that. Not sure how someone that has never spoken to me could hate me so much lol. The only real run in I had with xt after that was when a few in their xt room were badmouthing a couple of my friends. I don't care what people say about me but I will stand by anyone i consider my friend. ( boy has that blown up in my face a number of times ). Anyways that ended any contact between myself and xt. I still remember the old days of xt with great fondness. I'm not sure how many here remember those days but they were some really good times. XT was just people helping people. In the end there were several choices I could have made concerning my actions on xt. I chose to walk my own path rather than try to project my ideals on others when there was really no reason that I should have. My way while right to me may not have been what xt needed. So i left and concentrated on tg. And here we are.

[Guest X-Fusion]

Awe, I remember Haines AND his crappy website :blush:

[Deanne]

It's nice to know the details of what went on with the extreme team forum. Alot of you helped me out alot back then! I never knew JJ started that forum. It's also nice to see that you respected the systems set in place by the original creator--to bad the ones who took over our room a few years back weren't more like that.

 

Gwen wonders if ozzy will ever unban her, so she can use her real name again.

Edited October 28, 2006 by Deanne

[Ozzy10]

nope think yourself lucky i didnt keep you baned

and before you mouth off to me , err0r will tell you i can keep someone baned if i put my mind to it lol

[Deanne]

nope think yourself lucky i didnt keep you baned

and before you mouth off to me , err0r will tell you i can keep someone baned if i put my mind to it lol

 

*Deanne adds a new signature so people don't get confused when ozzy calls her Gwen

[Shagman]

hmmm when u bring up viper I recall a program called k0rn...i wonder if that can be used in other chats.

[YAH00]

pub94.ezboard.com/bextremecomputing Don`t try link! Gone now but was there a few months ago, time does pass so quickly!